Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby PalinCountry on Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:04 pm

To: Kmgrayphd,,,Its not a lack of rest between checkpoints that the dogs are dying of,, It is the lack of conditioning of some of the teams comming into the race, None of the front high caliber mushers are having dogs go down, But the back mushers are having the problems. As far as the 2 dogs on 1 team,,,,Thats a can of worms that not even I will touch on in this P.C. society...Lets just say some people are in their element and some are not....
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby msbelliveau on Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:19 am

I, too, was saddened to see dogs die during this race. I am an educator and this was my first time following the race. I found it truly exciting and interesting and am hooked for next year. My students loved watching and following the race. Although it bothered me that dogs died, I could see that these dogs live to run. We read Gary Paulsen's book "Woodsong" while we watched the race and it really gave wonderful insight into this sport.

After reading older articles on the treatment of these dogs during the Iditarod, it certainly looks like conditions have improved. There were several articles about dogs being mistreated. After experiencing the race this year, I can clearly see that the mushers love their dogs. Listening to Lance Mackey talk to his dogs before they arrived in Nome was touching.

What I would like to see in future Iditarods is perhaps a penalty paid by the musher for having a dog die while on the trail. While I'm sure most of the mushers who lost dogs in the race are upset that their dogs died, maybe it would make them think twice before continuing on. Just a thought....
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby kmgrayphd on Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:48 am

Thanks for the correction. You are right, it was Karen Ramsted.

The Anchorage Daily News article on the deaths today is interesting and seems well balanced with a good bit of solid information that helps put the problem in perspective. But what's clear is that we are getting to the point of doing all the obvious things that can be done to protect the dogs--from here on our it will be difficult to find ways that significantly reduce dog deaths.

Someone commented that dogs don't run until they die--but I believe some will and do. After all, some humans do.

Incidentally, I am concerned that there are other health problems in these racing dogs that we do not hear about because we only learn of the deaths. While that concerns me, I do believe that vets in Alaska especially, and people with dog teams, are supporting research to help the races avoid undesirable health effects on the dogs. It's just something we must not let up on.

If there is no research fund sponsored by the big races for general research on dog health in training for and running these races, it may be time for them to get together and set one up. The results would benefit all dogs--and likely other species as well.

I don't mind the animal rights people objecting (I am in accord with them on many points) as long as they inform themselves about the statistics and truth about the care given these dogs. It is important that all of us who believe in these races be pushed to do all we can to keep the dogs healthy. After all, the joy and beauty is in what a healthy team can accomplish!
Karen
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby kmgrayphd on Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:07 am

I would not want to see mushers penalized for a dog death unless we knew for certain that the musher had done something inappropriate that contributed to it. And it isn't obvious that the answer is better "conditioning" although I also think that should be looked at more closely.

It's clear from the reports about the dogs when checked before their later deaths, that they were not showing signs of distress. The fact that tired dogs slow the whole team contributes to mushers wanting to drop such dogs in the case of those competing. Those on a "2-week camping trip" as the Itidarod has been described with regard to those in the Iditarod just for the experience or low-level training, are also going to be very concerned about their dogs and not pushing.

Perhaps there should be more recognition for those mushers who scratch for the welfare of their team. These are not failures but humane responses and show that mushers can be fully responsible and put their dogs first. That's what I look for from the mushers when they are interviewed.

I was somewhat concerned when King mentioned in the video interview about his turning around and going back to the previous checkpoint, that he spoke about it mostly in terms of the risk to himself it seemed to me. I'm sure he was also thinking of his dogs, but I would have been happier if he'd emphasized that. It's important for the mushers to be clear about the decisions they make for the dogs wellbeing as that will help inform those who are very negative toward or on the fence about these events.
Karen
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby northwapiti on Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:37 am

Fines, penalities or withdrawals after the death of a dog do nothing to prevent dead dogs on races. I can assure that the heartbreak I have lived with for the last 2 years over the death of my lead dog Snickers in the '07 Iditarod dwarf any of those things.

I have literally relived that night over and over in my mind. I have endlessly debated the 'what ifs' and still have not come up with anything that could have prevented her death.

Snickers was an Iditarod veteran. She and the rest of the team were in great condition and having a great race. She was on Pepcid, as was reccomended by ITC at the time (thanks to research funded by the Snickers Memorial Ulcer Research Fund Prilosec has been now found to be more effective). She showed none of the 'classic' signs of an ulcer. In fact she ate her snack both on the trail outside of Grayling and again in the checkpoint. The 2 vets that examined her when we came into the checkpoint found nothing serious wrong with her.
Once she finally tipped us off to what was really going on (over 4 hours into my intended 6 hour rest) she had an amazing team of fantastic vets BATTLING for her life - including Dr. Justine Lee, who is regarded as one of the finest emergency room specialists in the country. They even did 2 dog to dog blood transfusions on Snickers (thanks to her brother, Crunchie).
Not for one second did anyone, from the vets to the volunteers to race officials to the other mushers to the locals in the community, treat the events with a 'crap happens' attitude.

On the wall in my living room is a 20 x 30 photo of my team 2 or 3 miles out of Willow on the 2007 race. For awhile after the '07 race I thought maybe I didn't want to run sled dogs anymore but featured in that photo is Snickers in lead with a look of shear bliss on her face.
These dogs have the same sort of soul I do, one that craves adventure and challenge. My commitment to these amazing dogs that I share my life with is to them is to give them a full life. Inherantly that involves risk and I will always do everything I can to minimize the risk to them, by continuing to learn and grow as a musher, by continuing to be involved with groups like MUSH with PRIDE and by maintaining funds like the Snickers Memorial Ulcer Research Fund.

You folks can debate this all you wish, but believe me, the mushers who have lived it have debated it all a 100 times more.

Sincerely,

Karen Ramstead
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby beryulvonp on Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:49 pm

Looks like they have worked hard to eliminate the aspiration pneumonia that Snickers
probably got what with changing to Prilosec, etc. I know it must be heartbreaking to lose a dog just as it is for all of us. We lost a dog (a house pet, not a racing dog) to aspiration pneumonia after surgery last year and it broke our hearts also. She had surgery on her back, was recuperating well, then vomited and somehow got some of that in her lungs and died.

The dogs lost in this race seem to have some heart problems that were not detected before the race. I hope they are able to be better able to detect any potential for this before the race. Maybe the dogs will have to have EKG's before the race as well as having their hearts listened to. As pointed out before the top mushers did not have heart/lung problems with their dogs.
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby northwapiti on Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:35 pm

Actually Iditarod dogs already get EKG's before they are okay'd to run the race.


And Snickers actually died of a bleeding stomach ulcer, not aspiration pneuomia - although that is definately a problem on the trail too.

Karen
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby jurso123 on Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:39 pm

Are ulcers common to big running breeds?
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby northwapiti on Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:00 am

They can be. For a few years they were the biggest concern for long distance mushers. However, the work done my Dr. Mike Davis and his staff at the University of Oklahoma, funded by the Snickers Memorial Ulcer Research Fund has now pretty much solved the issue.
We know now that treating preventively with Prilosec (or to a lessor extent Pepcid) during heavy training and racing will prevent ulcers.

Karen
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Re: Saddened by Unnecesary Death of Dog

Postby kmgrayphd on Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:12 am

northwapiti wrote:You folks can debate this all you wish, but believe me, the mushers who have lived it have debated it all a 100 times more. Karen Ramstead


I am grateful for your email, Karen, although I'm sure it was hard to write. It was hard to read too--but informative. For me this is not just about discussing possibilities and opinions. It's really more a probing for information and pushing for more to be learned that can help. For the sake of the dogs we can't just decide we've done the best we can and slack off on trying to learn how to prevent dog deaths.

I don't think life is about coddling bodies. I believe in challenging activities for good tradeoffs--the pleasures, satisfactions, and knowledge that comes from preparing for and having special adventures and experiences. And it's special when such activities are shared with animals who also clearly want to participate.

I remember discussions with a friend who was a zoo keeper and who hated the abnormal limitations most zoo animals experience. She was also a trainer and we often spoke on how animals responded--physically and psychologically--when involved in challenging activities. She often spoke also about how some animals crave extreme challenges just as some humans do. That coming together of human and dog characteristics happens in the Iditarod and that's part of what makes it, and other events like it, so amazing.

There probably will never be 100% successful ways of identifying dogs beginning to get in trouble--just as human medicine doesn't achieve that with humans. But I don't believe we've learned all that can be learned nor developed all the ways we can to get closer to that ideal of races where no dogs die.
Karen
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